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The Library of Minas Tirith (LOTR Discussions)
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Battle for Middle Earth II Heaven » Forums » The Library of Minas Tirith (LOTR Discussions) » The Return of the Shadow?
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Topic Subject:The Return of the Shadow?
Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 05-25-07 07:11 AM EDT (US)         
So many questions! Where was this book supposed to be set, what was it about, will our favourite heros still be alive, why didn't Tolkien publish it? Have a go, answer these questions or ask someone else to answer them for you.
Ask any Questions you want about Tolkeins books.

KANE LIVES!!! Join the Brotherhood at http://www.kanelives.org!!!

Peace Through Power...

[This message has been edited by Wraith Lord (edited 05-25-2007 @ 07:13 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Smeagolfan24
WICH Fanfic Moderator
posted 05-25-07 07:52 AM EDT (US)     1 / 28       
Do you have a link? I don't know what you're talking about...

.:|Smeagol|:.
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Alias Alive
Banned
posted 05-25-07 11:41 AM EDT (US)     2 / 28       
Let's see, Wraith here could be referring to the abandoned title for the first volume of the LotR trilogy, now called "The Fellowship of the Ring".

Though it's possible he's talking about the sequel Tolkien had planned to write after he had published the LotR trilogy, in which Middle Earth has been prosperous for a generation until Evil begins to return. Tolkien quickly abandoned said storyline, because inevitably it resulted in orcish cults and such.
Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 05-25-07 07:39 PM EDT (US)     3 / 28       
Neither, Tolkien wrote (was writing) a sequel to the LOTR Trilogy, he never published it though.

KANE LIVES!!! Join the Brotherhood at http://www.kanelives.org!!!

Peace Through Power...
Alias Alive
Banned
posted 05-25-07 07:43 PM EDT (US)     4 / 28       
*refrains from hurling insult*
Though it's possible he's talking about the sequel Tolkien had planned to write after he had published the LotR trilogy, in which Middle Earth has been prosperous for a generation until Evil begins to return. Tolkien quickly abandoned said storyline, because inevitably it resulted in orcish cults and such.
That satisfy you?
Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 05-25-07 07:46 PM EDT (US)     5 / 28       
Not really, give me plausible facts. Could Tolkien have planned civil war between The Mwn of the West. Just remember, THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE RETURN OF THE SHADOW!

KANE LIVES!!! Join the Brotherhood at http://www.kanelives.org!!!

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Alias Alive
Banned
posted 05-25-07 07:54 PM EDT (US)     6 / 28       
Read post 2 where I guessed what you meant by "Return of the Shadow", then read post 3, where you implied that both my guesses were incorrect. And then in post 4 I attempted to show you that the second guess contained in post 2 was, in fact, correct.

Understand now?

[This message has been edited by Alias Alive (edited 05-25-2007 @ 07:55 PM).]

Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 05-25-07 07:57 PM EDT (US)     7 / 28       
Wrong! Your Wrong!!!

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MightyFireball
Dúnadan
posted 05-25-07 10:04 PM EDT (US)     8 / 28       
Well, do you have a link to prove your point? Either of you? That'd probably be very helpful in settling this argument.

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
Alias Alive
Banned
posted 05-26-07 01:03 AM EDT (US)     9 / 28       
The problem is that Wraith isn't reading my posts. We both said the same thing, but he says I'm wrong. It's quite perplexing.
Drauglir
Dúnadan
posted 05-26-07 06:51 AM EDT (US)     10 / 28       
I understand you AA, and I think I remember the story. Wasn't Aragorn's son King of Gondor when it was set?

The stars are veiled. Something stirs in the East. A sleepless malice. The Eye of the Enemy is moving.
Aeneas2
Dúnadan
posted 05-26-07 06:11 PM EDT (US)     11 / 28       
Isn't the Return of the Shadow a volume of HOME?

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QuantumMechanic
Dúnadan
posted 05-27-07 04:01 AM EDT (US)     12 / 28       
There's a small mix up here - there are two stories involved!

1. The Return of the Shadow was indeed a volume of The History of Middle Earth. It was a proposed early title for The Fellowship of the Ring. My guess is they left it because, until they read the book, they wouldn't know what the shadow was. It is a fitting title for the HOME book, I'd say, because it covers the early stages of the writing of LOTR.

2. The New Shadow is a short, unfinished story by Tolkien set in the Fourth Age of Middle Earth. Yes, Aragorn's son was king of gondor. Bergil, the son of Beregond that Pippin met, is the brother of one of the two main characters, Borlas; the other is Saelon. For most of it, they discuss trees and fishermen and such. Eventually, the name Herumor shows up as some sort of secret, whispered name. Saelon urges Borlas to meet him elsewhere, dressed in black.

The story was abandoned by Tolkien. He did not seem to keen on writing a, "thriller," and thought that his narrative should really end at the end of the Third Age. It appears in the back of the 12th History of Middle Earth book, The Peoples of Middle Earth.

I hope I've cleared up some of the mix-up. Instead of carefully evaluating everyone's arguments, I'll just blindly say, "You're all right," and leave on that note.

~ Signature closed for refurbishment ~

BILL POSTERS WILL BE PROSECUTED

[This message has been edited by QuantumMechanic (edited 05-27-2007 @ 04:02 AM).]

Alias Alive
Banned
posted 05-27-07 04:05 AM EDT (US)     13 / 28       
Umm, yeah. Try to read the whole thread first. The point is that we are all right, but for some reason Wraith insists that I'm wrong (when I had in fact stated precisely what he did). Both me and him have already stated more or less exactly what you just did. No one seems to be reading into this very well...
Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 05-28-07 06:23 AM EDT (US)     14 / 28       
Wrong! Your Wrong! Where are the orc cults? There are no orc cults! It's gondor's civil war!!!!!!

KANE LIVES!!! Join the Brotherhood at http://www.kanelives.org!!!

Peace Through Power...
Jdg14
Dúnadan
posted 05-28-07 07:24 AM EDT (US)     15 / 28       
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_the_Shadow

Thats a link for u to actual prove that what all the others have said is relatively true in some aspects. The Return of the Shadow is NOT another book, just a section of the Lord of the rings. It goes from the start to the End of mines of moria. So this brings me to believe two things:

1) its basically talking about the return of evil in the east
OR
2) Could be referring to The balrog? (possibly?)

So please drop the whole Civil war. It would never happen due to the bond between Aragorn and Eomer.
Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 05-29-07 03:58 AM EDT (US)     16 / 28       
I'm talking about the NEW SHADOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KANE LIVES!!! Join the Brotherhood at http://www.kanelives.org!!!

Peace Through Power...
Jdg14
Dúnadan
posted 05-29-07 05:04 AM EDT (US)     17 / 28       
but yet the title of this is The Return of the Shadow. im just answerin the question and being told im wrong. By you!

[This message has been edited by Jdg14 (edited 05-29-2007 @ 05:04 AM).]

Catabre
BFME2H Replay Reviewer - Library Guildsman
posted 05-29-07 02:13 PM EDT (US)     18 / 28       
Tolkien died before he could finish the book.

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INSANEsameri
Dúnadan
posted 05-29-07 04:22 PM EDT (US)     19 / 28       
*becomes a peacemaker*
guys please stop arguing its giving me a headache. And wraith please stop saying people are wrong.

NOTE!!!! IGNORE ABOVE POST!!!!!!!!!

If you read above post you release insanesameri from any charges or lawsuits.

THE INSANESAMERI HAS SPOKEN
MightyFireball
Dúnadan
posted 05-29-07 04:25 PM EDT (US)     20 / 28       
Wow. Am I seeing that right? The famous warmongering INSANE just made a peacemaking post? That's amazing. Probably the first and last time for that.

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
Wraith Lord
Dúnadan
posted 06-01-07 02:57 AM EDT (US)     21 / 28       
Never INSANE Sameri Your Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

KANE LIVES!!! Join the Brotherhood at http://www.kanelives.org!!!

Peace Through Power...
QuantumMechanic
Dúnadan
posted 06-01-07 04:30 AM EDT (US)     22 / 28       
***** FREE SAUSAGES! *****
Now that I've got your attention...

Wraith Lord, I know you want to stick to your guns, but you're making a fool of yourself. I would offer you my Exclamation Mark Philosophy, but it probably wouldn't do any good. Pity.

First, InsaneSameri didn't really say anything that could be wrong. Secondly, I've got the book with The New Shadow in it in front of me right now, and there's nothing in it about a Gondor Civil War. (Incidentally, they had one of those long before LOTR, with Castamir the userper and so on.)

I suppose perhaps that the, "Herumor," mentioned could be somehow preparing some sort of rebellion? Orchestrating dissent? Tolkien said that the story would lead to, "the plot and its discovery and overthrow - but it would be just that. Not very worth doing."

Perhaps you've heard of something we haven't. Perhaps the title was used more than once, on some literature of Tolkien's that grabbed your attention. If so, please tell us about it.

Either way, please calm down and get back to the purpose of your thread.

~ Signature closed for refurbishment ~

BILL POSTERS WILL BE PROSECUTED

Scotty the Fallen
Dúnadan
posted 06-01-07 07:23 PM EDT (US)     23 / 28       
*Enters thread dumbfounded*

Wraith Lord, Shape up. This behaviour is ridiculous. When people try to tell you something, spamming posts simply saying "Your wrong!!11!11ONE11!!ELEVEN!!1!" is not going help your case in any way, shape, or form and is going to promote anger and more spam. Provide some weight behind your arguments or you'll be earning the contempt of the community soon enough.

I'm persuaded to close this thread, but I believe there is something still salvageable.

Post any more of this Wraith, and you're in for a warning.

EDIT: Thanks to Quantum for his efforts.

Scotty the Fallen | One-time Angel Reincarnate, and Former BFME2H and TWH Downloads administrator, and BFME2 Strategy Administrator.
"And I shall go softly into the night, taking my dreams, as will you." - EoJ
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[This message has been edited by SuicidalScotsman (edited 06-01-2007 @ 07:28 PM).]

saxguy
Dúnadan
posted 05-24-09 07:46 PM EDT (US)     24 / 28       
so what were those sopposed orcish cults?? i heard something about that a while ago and i havent heard of, so anyone care to explain??
Lady Arcola
SHH Seraph
posted 05-28-09 02:42 AM EDT (US)     25 / 28       
I have not come across any mention or anything like that in my readings of HOME. Where did you come across that saxguy?

..................
Seraph Lady Arcola
"I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly."
"A real friend is one who walks in when the rest of the world walks out." -Walter Winchell

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..................
Aesperus
Dúnadan
posted 05-29-09 10:37 AM EDT (US)     26 / 28       
Uh ok this seems a heated argumanet now instead of a simple question.

We all have a choice, so make yours wisely. If its wrong then make the best out of it.
Blatant
DoFH Seraph & Director of Seraphs
(id: blatant7)
posted 05-29-09 05:13 PM EDT (US)     27 / 28       
Actually, this "heated argument" happened exactly two years ago. So nothing to worry about here.

Yes, I began my journey alone, and I ended it alone.
But that does not mean that I walked alone. ~ Brandon Sanderson
Aesperus
Dúnadan
posted 06-05-09 12:52 PM EDT (US)     28 / 28       
Wow.... talk about history repeating itself.

We all have a choice, so make yours wisely. If its wrong then make the best out of it.
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